RW496 - Texas Chainsaw Rewatch - The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)

 

In this episode of The Texas Chainsaw Rewatch, Cory and Eoghan rev up their first discussion about "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre."

Trailer:

Our Favourite Trivia:

Director Tobe Hooper claims to have gotten the idea for the film while standing in the hardware section of a crowded store while Christmas shopping. While thinking of a way to get out through the crowd, he spotted the chainsaws.

Gunnar Hansen originally turned down the role of Leatherface due to the sheer brutality of the plot. He was then persuaded by Marilyn Burns, who was friends with him at the time.

Tobe Hooper allowed Gunnar Hansen to develop Leatherface as he saw fit, under his supervision. Hansen decided that Leatherface was mentally handicapped and never learned to talk properly, so he went to a school for the mentally handicapped and watched how they moved and listened to them talk to get a feel for the character. He also tried his best to make his portrayal as non-offensive as he could. Many fans, including those who are mentally handicapped, say he succeeded.

Even in his lift boots, Gunnar Hansen could run faster than Marilyn Burns, so he had to do random things when chasing her through the woods (you'll notice in one head-on shot that he starts slicing up tree branches in the background).

Due to the low budget, Gunnar Hansen had only one shirt to wear as Leatherface. The shirt had been dyed, so it could not be washed. Hansen had to wear it for four straight weeks of filming in the hot and humid Texas summer. By the end of the shoot, no one wanted to stand near Hansen or sit next to him during breaks to eat lunch because his clothing smelled so bad.

Surprisingly, this film is one of the least bloody horror films of all time. This is because Tobe Hooper intended to make the movie for a "PG" rating, by keeping violence moderate, language mild, excluding nudity entirely, and having most of the horror implied off-screen rather than shown in great detail onscreen. However, this plan had actually backfired, and made the film even more horrifying. Because despite cutting and repeated submissions, the Ratings Board insisted on an "X" rating, and it wasn't until the film received the "R" rating when Hooper gave up and released it. Hooper had a similar ratings problem with the sequel.

According to Edwin Neal (Nubbins/Hitchhiker), Texas State Troopers actually shook his hand and thanked him for causing crime to drop 18%. Apparently the message audiences took away from the movie was "Don't pick up hitchhikers".

When it was first released, the film was so horrifying that people actually walked out on sneak previews for it.

What's Up Next?

It takes 13 years, but Tobe Hooper comes back to further the story in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2

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RW495 - Dawson's Creek Finale - All Good Things Must Come To An End

 

In this final episode of The Dawson's Creek Rewatch, Cory and Tom reflect on their journey and affirm their friendship as they discuss the series finale "All Good Things Must Come To An End."

All Good Things Must Come To An End:

Written by: Kevin Williamson & Maggie Friedman

Directed by: James Whitmore, Jr.

Original airdate: May 14, 2003

Synopsis: 

Five years down the road finds Joey in a serviceable relationship with a man named Christopher, who pokes fun at her devotion to watching a show called The Creek which happens to be a very popular series based on Dawson’s movie.

Elsewhere, Dawson deals with the day to day runnings of his big show, fielding questions from the show’s writers that mirror questions posed by the fans of Dawson’s Creek over the years: namely who should end up with who, when should it happen, and who IS the show really all about. 

Jack, driving in Capeside, gets pulled over for speeding by Deputy Doug, and it’s soon revealed that he and Doug are actually in a relationship. The two start flirting and they part with plans to meet later.

Pacey meanwhile, has reopened The Icehouse and the business is doing quite well. He’s also doing well when it comes to the woman who does his menu designs, as he’s sleeping with her despite her being married.

As Joey works at her copy editor job, she chats with someone on the phone about being sorry that she can’t make it to their wedding. A coworker pushes her into going anyway, and to cancel a trip with Christopher. Later, as Christopher takes a shower, Joey stumbles upon an engagement ring in his dresser and looks concerned.

Pacey chats with his brother at The Icehouse, attempting to get Doug to move forward with Jack, but he isn’t ready yet. He counters Pacey’s arguments by revealing that his own secret affair is really not that secret.

Dawson runs into Joey while getting gas, and he’s surprised because he was told that she wasn’t actually going to make it to town for the wedding. She says simply that things changed. Dawson heads back home to greet his mom, commenting he couldn't possibly miss her wedding. Lily also greets Dawson with great enthusiasm, and asks if he wants to watch the classic film Annie Hall.

Joey confides in Bessie, Jen and Grams about finding the engagement ring. Grams drops some truth on her by saying that if the sight of that ring made her want to run away, then he probably isn’t the one for her. Jen also confides in Joey that Grams isn’t doing so well herself, but is bound and determined to not leave Amy without a grandmother.

Jack and Doug take a walk, far from the center of town, and Jack questions why they still have to keep meeting in private and taking trips out of town to hang out. Doug is still too concerned with what people will think if they find out their sheriff is gay, despite his own family being ok with it. Doug gets frustrated and insults Jack, saying that “not all of us were fags at 15” with Jack retorting that Doug was “a fag at 15 but never stopped hating himself for it.” 

Pacey sees Joey outside The Icehouse and the two reunite with a hug and conversation, commenting on how their lives have become a hit show. Dawson shows up as well, followed by Jen and Jack. They all reminisce about the good old days, but eventually Jen gets too drunk, and while Jack carries her off she reminisces about how her boyfriend left her after finding out she was pregnant, a story that effectively ends the night. Pacey and Dawson hang behind, and they talk about the happiness in their lives before saying goodnight.

Jack and Jen chat, and he asks her about pills he finds in her bag, with Jen saying that she keeps around in case Grams forgets them. Jen comments that while she used to think she could never raise her child without Grams, she’s learned a lot, and loves being a mother. Jack expresses his frustration about Doug, but Jen advises him to give him time.

Joey visits Dawson’s house and they chat about how the town has changed, and catching up on their lives. Dawson laments some parts of his job, and wonders if he’s doing the right thing, with Joey encouraging him. Eventually, they decide to sleep in the bed just like they did as kids. 

Back at The Icehouse, Pacey gets confronted by the husband of the woman he’s been sleeping with, who beats him up with a few of his friends to help.

Dawson has a dream about him and Joey getting married and recapping their lives as part of their vows before waking up suddenly.

Gail’s wedding goes off perfectly, and at the reception, Pacey notices Jen taking some pills, questioning her and accepting her answer about being an anxiety ridden mother. He asks her to share, given his various cuts and bruises, and she obliges him. 

Gail confronts Dawson, who had headed inside the house to try and work on his script, and he admits that he’s just confused and insecure because he’s reliving his past every day. Gail tells him that if he is unhappy with the story that’s being told on his show, he should go and hang out with his real friends, and start rewriting that story.

Joey and Dawson share a dance and they talk about how Joey took off early, and she nervously explains, as Dawson says he’s glad he can still recognize when she gets nervous.

Pacey then dances with Joey, asking for her help when he sees the woman he’s been having an affair with nearby, resulting in him kissing Joey, showing the woman that their affair is effectively over.

Jack confronts Doug and the two realize that they are in an impossible situation and unable to meet in the middle, break up.

Back on the dance floor, Jen suddenly collapses and is rushed to the hospital. Grams reveals Jen has a heart problem that wasn’t noticed until her pregnancy happened. The whole crew, minus Jack, heads home at Grams’ insistence, worried but hoping for the best. Jack goes in to see her and wonders why she never told him. Jen explains she didn’t want him to worry, and hoped it all would go away, but she admits that she is inevitably going to die.

Jack later goes to the gang and gives them the news, shocking everyone. They gather at the hospital, with Pacey helping Jen by lightening the mood, and helping her to laugh. Doug shows up with flowers, and lets Jack know he is still here for him. 

Back at home, Bessie calls Joey out on not telling Christopher that she wants their relationship to be done because she’s still in love with her ex-boyfriends, plural, and helps her to make the call.

Dawson and Lily watch Harold and Maude but Lily is sad because Maude dies in the story. Dawson shares with Lily about what being a soulmate means, and how they inspire you to be a better person, you never stop loving them, and that you carry them with you always. 

Pacey and Joey hang out at his restaurant and eventually get into a food fight, leaving Joey to wonder if they should be laughing now. Pacey says that this is certainly the time they need to try and laugh more than ever. 

Joey and Jen chat the next day, discussing her breakup with Christopher, and Dawson’s casting choices on his show. Joey reveals she knows who she should be with, but before she can make that decision, she always chooses to run. Jen jokingly tells her that her dying wish is for her to stop running. Dawson shows up, and takes Jen outside to film a special video message for her daughter. 

Pacey and Jen watch an old video Dawson recorded with them years ago, with Jen calling him out on still being hung up on Joey. He admits it and Jen tells him she just wants them all to remain friends no matter what. Jen starts to get angry at dying and gets scared at the thought of leaving her daughter alone, with Pacey promising her daughter will never be alone.

Dawson confides in Joey that he feels out of touch with his friends because of how fast paced his life is in Hollywood, forgetting big moments happening in their lives. Quickly spiraling downward, he tells her that he remembered how much Joey meant to him when they ran into each other the other day. She tells him that he is a lucky guy to be a writer, because writers get to live life twice.

Andie returns to visit Jen, and later catches up with Pacey to confirm the doctor’s conclusions. Pacey confesses he doesn’t know if he’s gotten things right yet in his life, and she tells him it’s more about knowing when something is wrong and doing something about it. The two then thank each other for all they’ve done in their lives. 

Jack and Jen talk and he tells her that he would love to raise her baby for her. Jen worries about her daughter, because for her whole life she’s been an instigator. She wants her daughter to have a better life where she belongs more than she felt she ever did. Jack tells Jen that she belongs to him, that she is his soulmate, and that he will make sure Amy knows love, and how much Jen loved her.

Later, as Grams sleeps near Jen’s bed, Jen wakes up to see her, and then silently passes away. Grams awakens and tells her that she will see her soon.

After the funeral, everyone gathers at The Icehouse to mourn together. Pacey tries to get Doug to talk to Jack but he feels it isn’t the time yet. Pacey then talks to Joey, telling her that he loves her and always has, but he is letting her off the hook, wanting her to be happy with someone, anyone. Joey begins to answer him, telling him that she loves him too but keeps getting interrupted by others, unable to finish her thought. 

Doug finds Jack on the beach and tells him that he wants to help him raise Jen’s daughter. Jack says he’s considering moving away so that Amy can be raised in a more accepting place. Doug says that being a good parent is about teaching a child how to pick themself up after falling down. Jack starts to refuse Doug’s offer, thinking it’s about a sense of obligation, but Doug tells him he loves him. Doug kisses him in front of an older couple passing by, telling them that Jack is his boyfriend. 

Joey goes to see Dawson and the two talk about being soulmates, and that no matter what, it will always be the two of them together. After reaffirming their love for each other, they watch Alexander climbing up the ladder to Dawson’s old room, now occupied by his sister Lily. 

As a scene from The Creek plays, Joey and Pacey watch together, now living as a couple. They call Dawson right after the airing of the show to congratulate him. Dawson, overjoyed for them and himself, shares with them that he has finally gotten a meeting with Spielberg in the morning, as a montage of the biggest moments of the last six years of the show plays on. 

Dawson’s Trivia:

Christopher was played by Jeremy Sisto, best known for his role as Billy on Six Feet Under, and as Detective Lio in Law and Order. He also played Elton in Clueless, and even played Jesus in the mini series called Jesus. He was a lead in the Kidnapped mini series (kidnapped wealthy kid, FBI and a specialist hired to figure it out), Suburgatory (Tessa Altman is used to the big city but when her dad moves her away, she has to adapt to her new suburban life in Chatswin). He voiced Batman in Justice League: New Frontier. He was also a lead in Wicked City (A pair of LAPD detectives track down serial killers terrorizing the Sunset Strip), Ice (a diamond dealer navigates the culturally diverse and otherwise treacherous world of the diamond business), and The Long Road Home (American forces occupying Iraq are ambushed in a Baghdad neighborhood). He was a supporting cast member in The Returned (a small town's residents are stunned when recently deceased locals begin returning from the dead. What should be a miracle soon becomes a nightmare). Most recently, he’s a lead in FBI (a procedural drama about the inner workings of the New York office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation). He is also a musician who has an album out called Escape Tailor.
https://open.spotify.com/album/1gDXPPAyxlo9i85vt6C837
https://youtu.be/KbqdSSHHr_4

Maddy, the cheating wife, was played by Virginia Madison. She started out with a bang in the 80’s, playing a lead in the movie The Hatfields and the McCoys, followed up with a supporting role in Class starring Rob Lowe, Andrew McCarthy, John Cusack, Jacqueline Bissett, and a host of other big name stars. The story focuses on a naive boy who goes away to college, his roommate wants to get him laid, and he ends up having a prolonged affair with a woman, which ends after the woman finds out how young he is. Later that year, when the boy goes to visit his roommate's family, he discovers his roommate's mother was the woman he slept with. She also appeared in Electric Dreams (a computer with a sentient AI and its owner competing to win a woman), Dune (1984, as Princess Irulan), Candyman, Sideways, American Gothic, Designated Survivor, and Swamp Thing (2019).  She has a list of 225 credits and probably, 90% of them she is a lead. 

Colby was Kyle Searles, and unfortunately he did not have as much success as his character’s namesake. Just a few handfuls of titles like guest spots in NCIS, The George Lopez Show, South of Nowhere, Swingtown, and one good run as a main cast member in the later seasons of 7th Heaven.

Sam was Sam Doumit, and she had a few more roles than Colby. She was a supporting cast member in Matumbo Goldberg (a 33 year old marketing executive gets fired and puts himself up for adoption pretending to be a 4 year old Nairobi boy who thinks he’s 16). She’s had various other guest roles as well. Most recently, she starred  in Red Riding Hoods (sole survivors of horrific mass murders join forces to hunt malevolent entities while uncovering the apocalyptic conspiracy uniting them).

Melanie was played by Melissa McBride, best known for her role of Carole on the Walking Dead. She’s had some other minor roles, such as Doctor Bronson in The Reconstruction of William Zero (a geneticist wakes up from an accident with only fragments of his memory is forced to relearn who he is via his twin brother. But as he digs deeper, he discovers he might not be who he thought at all), The Happy as Krista (woman catches her boyfriend cheating and forces him to marry her anyway and she ends up changing the lives of the quirky cast that surrounds this married couple), and The Mist where she plays a woman trying to get back to her kids. She previously appeared in Dawson’s Creek as Nina in the season 1 episode “Road Trip.”

The female writer was Elizabeth Roberts. She will eventually show up in a small role in Heroes, but otherwise has only a handful of credits.

The young actors playing Alexander and Lily have been in nothing else.

Maddy’s Husband was played by Mark Joy, He has about 90 roles, all secondary cast. He will appear as Thomas Dahl in… Surface! His buddies were played by actual stuntmen with loads of credits.

Annie Pierce played Mrs. Dudley. She has just a few credits, one of which is… SURFACE as Mrs. Prickett!

The director in the episode is an actual director as well

One more DVD menu mistake, they just can’t seem to get every title just right…

Things in the office:

• There is a rolling stone cover on the wall with The Creek on the cover and the actress playing Joey
• The white board says Sam (Joey) is friend, confidant, supporter, bearer of children
• Colby is best bud, emotional “confess (maybe)”, leader, sperm donor
• Colby needs sam, Petey needs Colby, sam doesn’t know what she needs
• Petey is sounding board, hipster, underachiever, 1 other thing
• Jan is new attraction, bearer of children, world “advisor” maybe 
• Change is the essence of drama

Essential Playlist:

Classic Creek Critiques:

Don…@nospamconcentric.net says: Fans,

First my two cents on the finale. I have heard that Andie was left on

the editing room floor. I just figured that she never was released from

the "nut house."

As for Pacey's brother being gay....I thought it was clever to put

closure on a running joke between Pacey and his brother. Pacey was

always joking about his brother's sexuality.

I was a little disappointed that Jen's death was dragged out too long.

Dawson's mother's wedding.....what the hell was that! The way Dawson

flips out over everything! They should have at least introduced the step

dad a few episodes ago.

Anyway, we can go on and on about the finale. I'm glad they had the

chance to put closure on the show rather than just getting canceled.

Joey's words to Pacey was great if fans paid attention: "Dawson is tied

to my childhood, my love for him is pure and ETERNALLY innocent."

Dawson's words to Joey: It doesn't matter who ends up with who. It's

always going to be me and you. My love is beyond friendship and is

forever."

So many people fall in love and get married only to become worst

enemies. I would have like to see Joey with Dawson instead of

Pacey;however: I am glad that Dawson and Joey have something

special...something that no wife or girlfriend can replace. Just like

Kevin Arnold and Winnie Cooper!

hi responds: does anyone remember what Pacey said to Joey in the kitchen....something about

being able to be in love with her could be good enough....if thats all there

ended up being between them....etcetc....

thought that was so profound!!

anyone??

Dale Hicks said: Basically it was that he wanted her to be happy, whether it was with

Dawson or Chris or the next guy. And while he'd love to be the guy, just

loving her was enough to satisfy him.

Transcripts should be up soon.

I'm waiting to hear exactly what Pacey said to Jen when he told her that

her daughter would never be alone. Something about Saturdays nights at

Pacey's?

Boss6Sr says: He said "Saturday night's have me and Amy's name written all over it."

It was a very poignant scene and Michelle Williams deserves an award for her

acting. And the plain fact that out of five characters, her's had to die. By

the way, who was Amy's father??

Dale Hicks says: I got that after watching the tape with CC'ing on. It was garbled, but

enough for my ears to piece together the dialogue. I'm getting worse with

dialogue as my ears age, but these kids seem to blaze through sentences

while mumbling an awful lot.

It doesn't matter [who Amy’s father is]. Call him McGuffin, if you must give him a name.

Had…@webtv.net says: hoo!!! Two kisses from Jack in one night! Not very passionate tho'

but this is primetime; I guess we can't expect QAF. ;-)))

Jack & Doug had been a couple for 6 months. I wish more time (like the

entire two hours) had been devoted in the finale to them! ;-)))

I think Jack & Doug would make a great spin-off!!! Two gay men raising

a child in a small town. One the Sheriff and the other a high school

teacher. EXCELLENT!!!!

Beh says: GRRRRRR!!! Talk about tugging us back and forth! AND I AM SO PISSED SHE

ENDED UP WITH PACEY! But it was a good episode.

Killa Matt says: get out of here pacey and joey deserve eachother excellet ending

Jolene says: I couldn't agree more. I love those two.

ag says: Yes - but you had to know this after Jack's "soulmates" comments to Jen -

she is his soulmate even though he is with the one he loves. That means Joey

can be with Pacey and still have Dawson as a soulmate.

Beth says: True...It wasn't awful or anything. I really LOVED the episode. It was

great! I was just set on her and Dawson. Have been for forever. But they

need each other more than Dawson and Joey need each other. And in the midst

of my "what!" my first thought was "at least poor Pacey got out of Capeside

and will FINALLY get to be really truly happy!"

Mosaic says: To a point I agree. One would think Dawson should end up with Joey. But

Dawson deserves someone less dramatic than Joey. I'm more glad that Dawson

got to live out his dream. He gets to be successful. Which is more important

than any woman. I keep thinking of the episode where Dawson flashes back to

his dad giving him his first camcorder. Living out his dream for him family

is way more important than ending up with Joey.

Mosaic says: Joey and Pacey did not marry so in my mind no one truly "got" her.

Ruthann says: Just wish Joey would say I need to be on my own. And wish they'd explain what

he's doing in NY.

The wedding dream that Dawson had was so great - their version of the series

and their relationship was right on target. And made me think they'd end up

together

Steve says: I think when Jack told Jen they were soulmates it pretty much set up the

ending. Simply being soulmates did not make them lovers. When Dawson & Joey

also had the soulmate conversation towards the end.. It was pretty much a

given that it would be Joey & Pacey in the end. I also noticed that there

was no finite closure.. Just because they were together in the end, they

were not married.. How many episodes have we seen end with Joey with or

without Dawson/Pacey. Maybe a reunion is in order in a few years. The

triangle continues..................

Maria Houch says: You have a point, but it seemed that Joey finally decided not to be afraid

of loving Pacey. It helped a lot that she was able to clear the air with

Dawson.

I wish they had said who was the father of Jen's baby. I know 5 years had

passed, but CJ just didn't seem like the kind of guy who would leave her.

Steve says: The only reference made was as Jack was carrying her from the bar and she

made the comment about the boyfriend who got her pregnant and left. Even

though it is just a TV show.. It leaves allot of possibilities. Baby's

father comes back, has legal claim to child after being upset that baby is

being raised by a homosexual couple..etc..etc..etc.. Lots of cliffhanger

possibilities. Maybe we could convince them to do another season. :-)

Alberich says: When I saw the scenes with Jen and Pacey, I almost got the impression

that KW changed his mind and was about to shock us with the news that

Pacey was going to get Jen's baby after she died especially since we

hear Pacey say "I will take care of your baby." Or did I miss something

there? Jen was afraid of dying in that scene and she unloads in front of

Pacey. It was Pacey she cries out not wanting to die because her baby

was going to be without her mother. Because when I also viewed the

scenes after between Jen and Jack...I was confused by what they were

talking about when it came to Amy...that Jen was trying to break the

news she didn't want Amy to grow up being considered "different" by

having two gay parents?! I think KW fudged in that scene. It wasn't

clearly stated that Jen wanted Jack to take care of the baby. I got the

impression that Jen was turning Jack down to be the adopted father and

was giving this big responsibility onto Pacey. Am I wrong or has anybody

else felt this? Otherwise there as a story rewrite that didn't quite

work out correctly there.

Here's what I think might have happened, though. KW probably wanted Jen

to let Pacey have Jen's daughter and have Joey get back to Dawson. But

somewhere during the screen rewrites, KW probably thought that wasn't a

good idea...Pacey with his bad boy reputation. But giving Amy to Pacey

would have made better sense considering Jen probably knew that Joey was

going to choose Pacey. Jen would have not been faulted for letting Pacey

take responsibility for Jen's baby because she knew that Joey was going

to choose him. Notice that KW took out the dialogue where Jen is

supposed to lecture Pacey about not stealing someone's soulmate. That

meant the Joey/Pacey deal was decided just at the last minute. This

might explain why the disturbing last conversation between Jen and Jack

wasn't resolved correctly enough to justify Jack getting the baby.

LHAZ 61746 says:  got the impression that her and Grams had decided that Jack should have Amy

cuz she said they thought he'd be an excellent father.

But how do we know they didn't? [Joey and Pacey get married]

lksnip says: well considering it was the season finally of year 1 of the show i am banking

that the last moments didnt take place more than say 2 months later, though

easy enough for a wedding, I just dont think it happened

Dale Hicks says: She stopped running as a promise to Jen. Dawson knew they were together

without pouting about it. That to me is enough to know that they're

together. Until he screws it up at forty, that is.

Mosaic says: Pacey was not wearing a wedding ring in that last scene. I specifically was

looking for one. Of course, that's not a guarantee either. I guess it's

implied. But would they have gotten married so quickly? I don't know. He'll be a cheater. Hell, we all know Pacey has women issues.

Tara K says: lol, i was looking too.... maybe that'll be the reunion.. the joey pacey

wedding, (it cn be like my best friends wedding where dawson tries to break it

up..hee hee) they might eventually have a reunion.. that's why MW wante to be

killed off so she wouldnt have to come back ever...

ps- i really would have liked to have seen andie i think that her and pacey

were a great couple which would have left joey to dawson, yay!

Edgar Wayne says: My understanding is that while many of the storylines are not from Kevin

Williamson's real life, the relationship between Dawson and Joey is

based on a relationship that he had with a girl while growing up. It

would make sense that maybe he based the outcome of Dawson and Joey's

relationship on the show on the outcome of this real life personal

relationship.

Although Dawson is not supposed to be gay, Kevin Williamson is gay. I

found it interesting that Dawson points out that they are more than

friends and more than lovers; going on to point out that they will be

soulmates forever. Maybe, without having Dawson be gay, he was playing

out what happened between himself and this real life individual; not

being a couple, but maintaining a life-long bond.

Just a thought.

Ygapookey says: I really enjoyed the finale. HOnestly, the most touching was the Doug-Jack development. That was very moving.

I"m glad she ended up with Pacey - that was the most realistic ending since very few of us, myself included, are able to move past the idealized version of your "childhood love." I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for my first love despite the fact that I likely wouldn't even befriend him if we were to meet for the first time today. That's just the way life goes.

Beth says: In the previews wasn't there a scene with Joey opening a ring box? I was hoping for a proposal! Even though I wish Joey and Dawson would have ended up together, and not just on Dawson's show, I would have liked a proposal from whomever she ended up with :) Though I'm sure it's safe to assume she got one eventually.

ProNoia says: yes, that ring was going to be from her boyfriend at the start of the

episode...

Frank1252 says: The "ring" seens were cut -- I guest for time

AW says: Hey all! It's been a while. I've been avoiding for *months* so I wouldn't get spoiled. I did accidentally get spoiled a little- I heard Jen was going to die. But oh, thank goodness I didn't read anything else.

First off, I noticed in a post about a month ago that someone suggested perhaps P/J fans weren't watchers from the beginning... I'm a P/J fan, and I've watched since ep 1. I even remember my friend being pissed because they kept saying things like, "Only 40 minutes

until the premiere of Dawson's Creek!" during the breaks of Buffy.

Also, I was at first a J/D person- it was obvious from the beginning that she was pining for him, and he was looking to the new girl... and of course I wanted them together. But then in season 1, things started happening... they got stuck with the science project together... Pacey kissed her... and from that kiss, I remember thinking "Whoa. They are the ones who need to be together". And I haven't looked back since. :) I can forgive a lot of the crap that happened in the last two seasons based on this episode alone. IMO, it was the best episode since season 3. I thank whoever it was (sorry, I deleted the post) who recommended Overstock.com to get my DVD set from- I bought it for

$21.39 and never thought I'd get it that cheap. I hope they start releasing subsequent seasons soon!

I am speechless. Thank goodness they were able to talk KW into coming back to pen the finale of my beloved Creek. I thought I was really going to hate the fact that they killed off Jen, but it was better than I expected. I know that lots of people are upset that they

didn't bring back Andie, but I feel almost as if she didn't have a place in the finale... which apparently the directors thought, too. She's just been gone for so long... and while they were friends with her and Pacey dated her, I feel like she was always on the periphery

of the group. 

I'm just glad Jen's death was at the end. I must say,

Michelle Williams has grown into good actor... I remember thinking during the first show that she was horrible. She's grown on me. :) I had a feeling, up until the last 10 minutes, that she was going to choose Pacey. Most of the scenes of the Triangle were J/P

scenes. Also, I just didn't feel any rekindling romance between D/J... the closest thing to a declaration of being IN love was when Dawson said he was glad he could still make her nervous. But I never felt it

was nervous in the way that he wanted, rather she was nervous because here was her best friend... her "soulmate"... and she felt uncomfortable around him, like she maybe didn't know him so well anymore. Then with things like Pacey saying how he was never so happy as with her, and then the scene in the kitchen... I was ready to reach into the TV and strangle Gail and Bessie myself!! 

When they showed them on the dock I thought they were setting it up for them to stick D/J together once and for all... so I was ecstatic when they pulled back from Joey at the end and she was there with PACEY!!

Oh, man. I've been waiting for 3 years for this. No. Probably longer. KW didn't always want J/P together, right? Perhaps they were swayed by the overwhelming P/J fan support. Perhaps he recognized instant chemistry between P/J, since the first season, that just never existed between Dawson and Joey... and yeah, I know it's not really his decision anyway. They drew it out, though, and made you sweat... throughout the whole episode they had the lucky couple talking,

elluding to the fact that they made each other happy, and not really even throwing D/J in a scene together very often. Then at the end they tried to trick you... and in the last minute or two, pull back and see

Joe and Pacey in her (their) apartment, finally. Sigh.

Even Katie (Holmes) thought they ended it the right way. Yeah, maybe she said that just for show. They went "back to basics"... they even recycled music from early episodes! What a lovely touch. It really did come full circle, back to where it started, and that was

the perfect way to end it.

malibu says:  like all the characters, although I didn't like J & P getting

together in the final episode tonight. J & D have been trying to get

together all these years, they are soulmates, and yet Joey ends up

with Pacey. Yuk. Big disappointment.

Another disappointment was not seeing Audrey. She was my favorite

character. A real woman, not a toothpick anorexic. And she had some

great lines. I'll never forget when she told Pacey before he went out

on a date "Don't push her head down. Girls don't like that." :-)

Tara K says: Homage to Paula Cole. when sam said "I don't wanna wait for our lives to be over. I want to know

right now. What will it be? " i thought that was just great...

oh, speaking of music... does anyone know who sang that song that kept playing,

"say goodnight, not goodbye"? i was pissed to see that all they mentioned was

american hi-fi, meanwhile the other song played through the whole damn show

DD says: Not happy with scenes cut. Finale weak. I’m mildly happy that there was kind of a PJ ending, but they made it

as weak was possible.

Fact is Jen and Jack are always the fourth and fight characters out of

five. Pacey , Joey and Dawson are the main three.

I wanted the finale to be a resolution of what we've scene on the show

the past six years. Not NEWLY CREATED BULLSHIT STORYLINES . LIKE

JEN DYING AND JACK AND DOUG. THERE WAS TOO MUCH TIME SPENT ON DOUG IN

THE CLOSET OR OUT OF THE CLOSET DRAMA. KW IS SUCH A MILITANT HOMO.

So, many key P and J interaction was cut. Scenes that showed D and

J's estrangement were cut. So they de-emphasized Pand J and overhyped

D and J. But frankly, there was too little of those scenes.

For example the gas station scene with D and J was cut. The extended

scene where P and J were alone in the car after dropping Dawson off

from the hospital. Another P and J solo in the hospital. Lines were

cut when P and J talked together after being interupted twice. The

part of the wedding vows that say that Dawson lost his virginity to

Jen and that they each had Natasia and Eddie.

I DON"T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT SOME SUPRISE ENDING> RESOLVE THE DRAMA.

SHE MADE HER CHOICE BEFORE THEN ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPT.

What is all this disease of the week crap. Jen dying is supposed to

make her more interesting? Except your surporting role and move on.

Michelle williams is a good actress, but it's so cliche. Talking into

a video tape. What a hack Kevin Williamson is. He couldn't just tell

a story of where Jen would have been five years from now, without a

cheap gimmick.

I'm really pissed off about how much time Jack and Doug got. If there

were years of build up then maybe I could tolerated it. But this is

just some crap created for the finale. Jack and Jens roles were

touching because they had a real onscreen history together.

I'm just kind of PO'd that there wasn't satisfactory emotional payoff

with the Pacey and Joey. We seen superior episodes like The

Castaways, and Love Bytes(along with season 3 and 4) as backstory.

And to see it played like a cheap gimmick in the finale kind of

sucked. More time needed to be devoted to them and not these tired out

of the closet and disease of the week gimmicks. I guess the overall

script was find. The choice of editing sucked. THe fact is KW was

responsible for the flop WASTELAND.(cancelled after three episodes on

ABC).

This episode turned me off DC. I'm out.

Sharpe Fan says: I too would have like to see more time devoted to Pacey- Joey and even to

Dawson - Joey. And I would have liked to see Andie and Gretchen. On the

other hand, I wouldn't have liked to have any of the scenes that were shown

cut. With only two hours, something had to give.

On balance, I liked the finale very much. I am sorry the show is over.

I guess there is one thing we agree on, we won't be watching the show any

more.

2 dates later… DD says: I've been thinking about the finale again and it wasn't that bad.

Reading the transcript is better than watching the show cause I

couldn't understand what Katie Holmes was talking about in her key

scene with Pacey.

There were only a few extra sentences I would like to hear. Like one

thing Joey not getting interuppted when talking to Pacey, twice.

And then Dawson mentioning Pacey by name and saying it was okay to

Joey. Pacey mentioned Dawson by name.

The end result and where they were headed was good. It was about the

four friends. The remaining three were at peace together. There was

no jealousy. They were friends foreever.

I hope there is never a reunion, because P and J was on a very thin

tread where they left them. Pacey was at Joey's apartment and it was

only a few weeks later. I'll try to imagine that they will always be

together.

DJers could imagine that the broke up a few days later. "Cause Pacey

was getting sick and tired of her constantly calling Dawson. he he

David Corsi says: actually every 1 hour or 30 minute show gets edited "smaller" for

syndication. all episodes of friends are cut for example. what happened here

is that KW made the "syndicated" version the main version, allowing for the

comments from cast on the major networks, while still providing the extra 6

minutes of ads REQUIRED by syndication. it is the biz baby. :-)

LHAZ 61746 says: I was glad J and P were together but I hated that P had to leave behind his

restaurant. I got the feeling that he was finally settled with a career, a

sucessful career and then he left it to move to NY. Oh well. I guess I just wanted Pacey to have something of his own and not

have to leave it behind, ya know?! :)

Mandy says: I think the series finale of Dawson's Creek sucked. It was depressing and

the whole show over all was just plain dumb. Jen dying like that? I mean,

gosh, could they get any more depressing? They should of just had some

accident and someone died..not all that other dragged on stuff. And Doug is

gay? Uhh....talk about dumb. He never seemed gay to me. I just hated the

whole Doug and Jack thing. And most of all, I hated that they put Pacey

with Joey. The whole point of the show was having Joey and Dawson together

who loved each other so much...yet they put her with Pacey. Who I never

liked her with in the first place. And Dawson ends up alone. Only a TV

show in his life. And they never even said what happened with Audrey! They

should have at least showed her too. I just feel it was a waste of time to

even watch the finale. Too depressing.

Mosaic says: They said that Audrey was touring through Europe. I didn't care for her on

the show anyhow. The rest of your comments I somewhat agree with. Last night

should have been called Joey's Creek.

lksnip says: well couldnt we say its been joey's creek for 2-3 seasons now. Though I wasnt

in favor of a character dying I must confess they handled the Jen death

eloquently, with grace, respect, and dignity. The one thing I would have hated

to see was a main character die by a stupid accident...outside of the fact that

I would have found that offensive, contrived (yeah you can argue that her death

was contrived anyway), and silly, the other fact is the whole accident death is

a been there done that...Abbie, Dawsons father

Seaclock says: This show has (over)used death as a plot device from the beginning. Joey's

mother died before the show started, then Jen's grandfather died, then Andie

and Jack entered the scene carrying the baggage of their dead brother, then

Abby dies, then Mr. Brooks, then Dawson's father, then Jen. I mean, I know

everyone knows someone who has died, but the sheer volume of bodies for such

a small group of friends in such a short time is, um, overkill.

Kayden says: I totally agree. They totally manipulated Dawson and Joey fans for 6

long and painful years. If this is what was the "great" finale was

supposed to be, I would have been happier if 1) Dawson's Creek had

never aired or 2) it had ended at the end of Season 2. This was utter

tripe.

I have to admit, I used to be a fan of Kevin Williamson, but I really

don't want to see any future project of his. I don't know if I am

going to continue watching any other WB show either. We got hosed and

they expect us to be happy and grateful for the series finale? Have

we even been talking about the same show?

David Corsi says: they should have had andie come back (i know they did for a small role which

got cut) in the final, get the "hint" of an old flame going again with pacey

so he can have his happy ending, make the death of jen make joey and dawson

realize that as they always knew but fought so hard against ... that they

were destined for each other. the joey pacey ending while sweet was heart

breaking as you watch the one "nice guy" who is the namesake of the show

after all.... leave alone.

dacman says: Taped the finale and fast-forwarded through 75% of it. It really stunk!

LHAZ 61746 says: I never liked Doug at all anyway. IMO, he was an ass and to put him with Jack

irritated me, too.

> And most of all, I hated that they put Pacey

>with Joey.

I guess I was one who actually wanted Pacey and Joey together. Even though at

times, I wanted Joey to end up alone.

>And Dawson ends up alone. Only a TV

>show in his life.

The feeling that I got was that, that was all Dawson wanted at the time. He was

so into his show and wasn't really interested in a romantic relationship.

> And they never even said what happened with

Audrey!

Joey mentioned that she was on tour with John Mayer as a backup singer.

Tara K says: See, i like joey's decision for this reason....

all throughout the series she always had to choose between one or the other

dawson and pacey even stopped being friends because of her.

finally, they all become friends again

joey doesnt know who to choose, but then she realizes that your soulmate isn't

nesscacarily the person you're supposed to marry (ie jack and jen)

dawson realizes after losing jen, that there are more important things in life

than pining over a girl and realizes that their friendship is enough because it

is something that goes beyond any romantic relationship they could ever have

(yay dawson, way to grow up!)

after this talk between d and j (us always, or whatever it was) (sorry im

tired...) she realizes that she will always have dawson so she is free to go

for pacey

so essentially she doesn't really choose or in a way she chooses both, or

really it's dawson that concedes for something more meaningful....

I wish all love triangles could turn out this way!

Ps- The Lily and Alex stuff was just precious.... do i detect a spinoff?

David Corsi says: yeah but I just started watching season 1 for the first time in 6 years and

this stuff joey said from the final "i always knew who i was supposed to be

with" is crazy... you can see in season 1... it was supposed to be dawson!

Pea says: I think she made the right choice. But I thought it would end up being Dawson.

Jen says: I think when she said she always said you she should be with she meant since

the whole triangle started. In season 1 Pacey wasn't in her picture. And

at 15 with you forst ever boyfriend, have the stuff you say is a right off

anyway. lol

As soon as she said she always knew, I knew it was Pacey. Think of all past

proof, she left capeside with pacey when first given the choice, and when

Pacey lost Dawson's money she went with pacey. So in a sense she normally

does choose Pacey over Dawson

SleeplessInWilm says: Pretty well written - looks like Kevin Williamson was pretty much back

on top of his game. I was impressed that even though he had not written

Joey and Pacey together before (remember he left the show before they

got together), he seemed to have a good grasp on their relationship.

Also, plenty of kudos for having Dawson and Pacey reestablish their

friendship as well - it would have really sucked to have the show end

with them pissed at each other

Michelle Williams was great and managed to really pull off looking

fragile and haggard while still looking pretty as well.

The Doug/Jack thing was not my cup of tea - it seemed like they were

always smooching on each other even though it happened only twice.

However, both actors did a good job with the storyline and I think it

was pretty believeable.

My one wish is that they would have at least mentioned Andie...it was

like she didn't even exist! It would have be cool to find out whatever

happened to her.

Dawson's Creek has pumped alot of $$$ into the Wilmington area and we

locals will really miss it. Thanks for 6 great years!

Boss6Sr says: I was in the scene with Andie and Pacey in the hospital

talking about Jen dying and the fact that she was cut from the entire 2 hours

kind of pissed me off. Plus, it made it seem like KW was going to put Dawson

and Joey together and have Andie and Pacey try and work at something. It

would've made a little sense, but I don't want to get hashed on here.

Anyway, I'm rallying!! I want the alternate scenes!!

Oscar G Carranza says: Wonder how Meredith Monroe feels about getting cut out entirely of the

finale? Not even a mention of her, kinda sad.

Seaclock says: I'm sure this has been talked about sometime before, but I'm only an

occasional lurker. Anyway, important characters get written out of shows

all the time and then simply vanish from the other characters' consciousness

as if they never existed. They're never seen again, they're never

mentioned. Good grief, Andie was Jack's sister and Pacey's ex; you'd think

she'd pop up somewhere. Also, didn't she say that she was only deferring

Harvard for one year? That would have made season 6 her first year. The

show was supposed to be taking place in Boston and -- hello? -- you don't

need a passport to get to Harvard from Grams' house. Could she not have

shown up for Christmas or Thanksgiving or something? Leaving her scenes on

the cutting room floor in the finale is just wrong.

Shell824 says: Okay, I watched the finale rerun last night, from about the 30 minute mark, but

I can't figure out at what point they were five years in the future, since they

all looked pretty much the same to me.

Also, what was the deal with the stitches on Pacey's eye-brow that kept coming

and going ?

- Shell, thinks Katie Holmes should eat more

Seaclock says: The whole episode was set five years in the future though without knowing

this fact ahead of time I don't know how you'd deduce specifically that it

was five years. As you point out, you'd never know it from looks. The only

one who looked older at all, IMO, was Jack. To me, Jen looked particularly

young; obviously having a child didn't age her much. Of course, looking

their age has never been particularly important to teenage dramas since most

of the actors are already in their twenties. Remember the episode where

Rachel Leigh Cook (I may have her name completely wrong) played a role in

Dawson's movie? She was supposed to be in college but she looked the same

age as the rest of the cast and is probably younger in real life the some of

them.

BubbCoop says: the entire thing was in the future. Think about it. Jack's finished with

college and teaching, Jen has a 1-year-old baby, Pacey owns his own restaurant,

Dawson's movie has been turned into a TV show, and Joey is done with college

and working in NY.

Had…@webtv.net says: IMO there was so much more that could have made the finale better - like

more Jack and Doug! ;-)))

Maybe even if the wedding being a commitment ceremony between Jack and

Doug.

I would have loved if Jen's baby had been Jack's via artificial

insemination. And Jack having joint custody.

And too much time I think was wasted on Jen's dying. Maybe a car wreck

on her way to the wedding and no one finding out til afterwards?

Paul Lefebvre: for sure. the doug/jack segment was all of ten seconds, and

considering how much of something new and out of the blue that was, it

deserved more.

I hate to say bad things about a generally good finale, but

as you say, they spent too much time on Jen dying. Very effective and

good acting and all that, how it affected everyone else, but boy, it

was like almost half the show. They milked it for all it was worth.

Almost like they couldn't come up with anything else to flesh out the

two hours. With all the other issues going on between the characters,

the last thing they needed was to throw in this death. They already

have a dying character, remember? Couldn't they have killed her off

if they wanted so much to have a death in the finale? Just my

opinion......

Katschthaler says:  saw the finale; cried like a baby

AND: I'm taking back a bit of what I said bout Jack & Doug. they really

look too cute together!

and the triangle thing moved to the background of jen's death, so it didn't

really matter anymore, whom joey would choose - well done!

I liked joey & jen being closer than they ever imagined they would

cried most when:

- jen made the video

- jack told jen the soulmate thing

- doug's speech about being a parent if jack let him and jack & doug kissing

on the beach

*sigh* 6 years kind of gone...

I don't really get it either, what was the point in letting someone die. I

haven't seen the finale yet (won't be on in austria for aaaaageeees) but I

am downloading the 6th season and as far as I have read your comments here,

it seems to me it was like: "oh, let's get meaningful, let's kill someone

off" ???

Tara K says: see, i heard that michelle williams didnt want anything more to do with the

show which is why they killed off jen (you know in case they do a reunion show)

hmm, reunion show, i bet pacey gets sent to prison and joey get with dawson...

yea J&D!

Jen says: Overall I liked it, but It didn't give me the 'this is the end' feeling.

There was so much to cover and not enough time to do it. I've heard about

how many things were cut and that the original cut was almost 3 hours long

without commercials. It seemed kinda odd that Andie didn't make an

appearance, not only for the wedding but for Jen's death. Especially since

a few days prior it was made clear Jack would be taking care of Amy, she

should of least had been there for her brothers support.

The Jack/Doug thing was kinda weird. I would have liked a few minutes of

dialogue to distinguish how they even really met let alone serioulsy dating.

I know they knew each other but it's not like they were any where near the

same circle, so how they even came to date especially with Doug so very much

in the closet is kinda odd.

I understood the whole Pacey getting the shit kicked outta him but why they

hell was the wife at the wedding the next day? even if she was invited, why

bother coming especially since she must have known her husband found out. I

guess the only reason was so that Pacey and Joey would kiss rekindling old

flames.

I think they handled Jen's death nicely. The emotions everyone went thourgh

were very realistic. And i could definatly picture Jen playing up the jokes

until she cracked to Pacey. I didn't like how Jen's mom didn;t make an

appearance. It would have been nice to have Grams, her mom and Amy with her

when she died. Then there would have been closure on the whole did her and

her mom REALLY manage to fix everything. Jen was in the hospital for at

least what, 3-4 days if not more? If you got a call your daughter was dying

you would be able to get their within that time frame from anywhere in the

world.

I was happy to see Joey and Pacey together and the fact that Dawson, Joey

and Pacey had finally made peace with their past.

The only thing I was really disapointed with is that there was no closure on

everything as a whole. I wish the last 5min would just quickly flash some

more years though their lives. Maybe show Doug, Jack and a maybe pre-school

or older sized Amy at the playground, Then maybe show a quick clip of Joey

and Pacey's wedding, or show a very obviously pregnant Joey at home with

Pacey, then a clip of Dawson at a big movie premiere (his own) with some

nice looking girl with a big diamond on her finger. Just so there was

definate closure, then follow all that with the montage of them younger.

Just my quick little thoughts on what I liked and would have liked to see.

Feel free to comment cuz I know I've prolly forgotton something.

Tara K says: yeah, i agree with this, there had to have been something they could have cut

out in oder to have fit her [Andie]  in.... i bet if the writers saw this {Jen’s above idea for a future montage] they would think "damn why didnt we think of

that"

that really wouldve been perfect, but im pretty surer theyll do a reunion

eventually

10 years from now and theyll all STILL look the same....:-)

Jen says: I know, sometimes you wonder how these peoples are writters at all? LOL

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